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| Does the Pope have a valid point? (L) https://www.acts20.com/viewtopic.php?t=87856 |
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| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Chicago27: Does the Pope have a valid point? (L) |
| www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/world/europe/pope-francis-lords-prayer-translation-temptation.html |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | brotherjames: Short answer |
| Yes. |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Aaron Scott: Yes, he does.... |
| I have often thought how terrible it is to have to PRAY THAT OUR FATHER WON'T LEAD US INTO A DEEPLY DAMAGING SITUATION!What kind of God is that? Certainly not that One that most of us preach.I think I would make an additional change (or maybe just use it instead of the pope's suggestion): Keep us from trials. That's what temptation almost certainly means, at least if we're going to believe what James said in: |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Quiet Wyatt: Now, God CAN be tempted...but not with evil. We learn this from what Jesus said in: |
| Well, there’s this: Matt 4:1 |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Dave Dorsey: |
| καὶ μὴ εἰσενÎγκῃς ἡμᾶς εἰς πειÏασμόνand not lead/bring us into temptation |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Dave Dorsey: |
| Other translations |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | brotherjames: |
| BBE. 13 And let us not be put to the test, but keep us safe from the Evil One.ISV. And never bring us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.’EasyEnglishDo not let anything cause us to do wrong things. Keep us safe from the *Devil.†’NHEB |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | diakoneo: |
| Here's a good thought from Jamison (JFB) |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | brotherjames: |
| I agree God tests man but this commentary puts the prayer of verse 13 into a better context. Just food for thought.And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.13. And lead us not into temptation—He who honestly seeks and has the assurance of, forgiveness for past sin, will strive to avoid committing it for the future. But conscious that when we would do good evil is present with us, we are taught to offer this sixth petition, which comes naturally close upon the preceding, and flows, indeed, instinctively from it in the hearts of all earnest Christians. There is some difficulty in the form of the petition, as it is certain that God does bring His people—as He did Abraham, and Christ Himself—into circumstances both fitted and designed to try them, or test the strength of their faith. Some meet this by regarding the petition as simply an humble expression of self-distrust and instinctive shrinking from danger; but this seems too weak. Others take it as a prayer against yielding to temptation, and so equivalent to a prayer for support and deliverance when we are tempted; but this seems to go beyond the precise thing intended. |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Tom Sterbens: |
| Over the last year I have marveled at how often our theology takes the shape of our presuppositions. I don't know that any of us can be free of that proclivity in some sense. That issue has become the single biggest issue for personal examination of my own thought process...Nonetheless - while I have no formal training in original languages, the Lord's Prayer passage is one I have probably spent the most time with through the years, in terms of grammar and linguistics. To that point I do have some pretty good resources and I cannot find any reference to εἰσενÎγκῃς (manuscript) or εἰσφÎÏω (lemma) or φÎÏω phero (root verb)...that lends credence to falling into anything. It seems to be exclusively an act of intentionality, bringing, carrying, to present, etc.I know that does not fit comfortably with many of our preferred notions of God (personally, I don't like it...). But then I am forced to consider letting God's Word speak to me, in all the discomfort it creates, or I can fashion God in the manner I would prefer Him to be. I guess my concern at that point is we began to innocently fashion another Golden Calf.But that's me... |
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