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Homosexuals in the Church
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Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  buttrfli24: Homosexuals in the Church
So, in the current climate I think we can all agree that homosexuality is an issue the church cannot ignore. It's more than just an abomination that makes God sick or a sin that will make the pervert bust hell wide open as I've heard so many men of God say, red faced and indignant in the pulpit. Homosexuality is not a nameless, faceless monster in the big city that we denounce from the safety of our holy assembly... it is a person we know and love, a teen in our youth group, a couple seeking a church home who sit on the back pew, a family member, a church member you'd never suspect... in short, it is now a living breathing person who we cannot so easily demonize.My church has had what I consider an unusually high number of homosexuals in attendance over the last twenty years. Especially considering our pastor is one to often say those things I mentioned before. It isn't exactly an affirming environment for any sin but perhaps least of all homosexual sin. Yet we've had many folks in our pews, altars, classrooms and gatherings who are either openly gay or the very definition of closeted gay stereotypes.Recently we had a committed lesbian couple in attendance for several weeks. They faithfully came with their children to every service... Sunday morning and night, Wednesday night, even some special events going on at the time. But then, they disappeared.Since one half of the couple had attended our church in her youth and I knew her prior to this as a casual acquaintance, I reached out to her on facebook to see why they had stopped coming. No, it wasn't the hard preaching. Pastor remarkably hadn't mentioned gays in the entire time they'd been visiting. No, no one had been mean to them or said anything to them. Nothing like that.It turns out, they lived a good distance away and the drive was too much so they had found a church closer to home. They really appreciated me checking on them. No one from other churches ever did when they stopped coming. They had come to my church to begin with because they wanted their children exposed to Pentecost the way the former attender of my church had experienced it in our congregation as a child.I was partly shocked to hear this and also sad. Had our preaching of Jesus been so ineffective that this woman had grown up and surrendered to an alternative lifestyle? Not only that, but was comfortable bringing her children to that same Jesus message and feeling ok about herself and her little family? Would another angry condemnation of her particular sin have turned the tide? Would more love and understanding? What does Jesus himself prescribe in a situation like this?I began to wonder (and wonder still) about these things and more. But for this discussion I will focus on one point. If this married woman and her family had come to know Christ through repentance... then what? Are they expected to divorce and split the children? Are they to walk away from a house and cars and a shared small business.. a life and family with the one who has been their partner for over a decade and now is their legal spouse? Can any of you help me sort through this or add to my wonderings
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Cojak:
This is a very big concern, always has been. Just in the last few years it has moved from the back burner to the front burner.This is a no-brainer for a very hard-nosed person. It is very complicated for someone who is compassionate.In my opinion the couple could be right before God thru repentance. Then to continue to live together, if it was possible for them to refrain from what the Bible calls sin.In saying that I am not saying the majority of the church world could handle it or EVEN BELIEVE that they are now just understanding friends sharing a house.Until the last 20-30 years two men or two women could share an apartment or house and not a second thought was given, BUT NOW??Maybe I am too simplistic. It is possible I do not know what I am talking about. There are much smarter advisors here.BTW it is good to see the name and post! Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Cojak:
Also you have articulated the situation and your concerns very well. Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  buttrfli24:
Thanks for your reply. I always look forward to hearing from you. I quoted part of what your response because it stuck out to me and made me have another set of questions.Firstly, what is the Bible, in your opinion, actually calling sin? Is it merely the physical act that makes it a sin? Is it the heart matter that makes it wrong? We used to be able to say well, its sex outside of marriage so its wrong regardless but now marriage is readily available nationwide.I am pressing this because Jesus said lusting after a woman in your heart was sin. So would loving a person in a romantic way who is of the same sex be sin? Or is it just the acting on those feelings that takes it over the line.Secondly, forgive me if I am being crass but I think it is unlikely even the most devoted and Holy Ghost filled man or woman could live in a house with someone who has been their romantic partner and abstain indefinitely. I find in these situations it is helpful to reverse the gender of one of the people in my imagining and apply it to myself. Could a heterosexual couple live in a house together, in love and doing life together, and not give in to physical desire? I don't think so.Thanks you for responding, Cojak. I hope you and your sweet wife are doing well
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Quiet Wyatt:
I think the church has in many ways contributed to the problem in that we have by and large bought into the patently unscriptural lies that all sin is the same, that sin really is inevitable and unavoidable due to a ‘sinful nature’ that causes you to sin, so that we all must sin daily, in word, thought and deed while we live in these physical bodies which can’t help but cause us to sin.
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  buttrfli24:
It's possible that you meant for this to be helpful... but it wasn't in the least
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Quiet Wyatt:
I find that there is nothing helpful at all with the way sin has been wrongly taught in most churches to be something people just can’t help.
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  buttrfli24:
I am not debating whether or not homosexuality is a sin. I am not discussing whether or not a person sins everyday or if grace is sufficient or some sins actually are greater than others. I am sincerely asking about the biblical and most Christ-like answer to a very real issue. In our society, homosexuality is being embraced and lived openly. Real people with families are coming into our churches and I want to know what that means. I want to understand and love people and still follow the teachings of Jesus. When you come into the discussion and the best you can offer is sarcasm... anger that is evident in your typed words... you are not helping. To proclaim that all sins are not equal, that we have bought an unscriptural lie, that sin is avoidable, et al. without offering anything to support those proclamations or to further explain them... you are not helping.Even this last comment, you are not answering the issue. It is easy and cliché to say the truth will set them free. And I believe wholeheartedly that the blood of Jesus does set us free from sin. However, they still have to deal with the fallout of their about face and that is what I am talking about in this thread. What happens next? What is the right response? How can t he church help?I mean you no disrespect whatsoever but this dropping a bomb of truth and walking away isn't what I am looking for and I don't think it is going to help the people who are bound in homosexuality either
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Quiet Wyatt:
I sincerely and wholeheartedly believe that knowing the truth is the only path to freedom from sin for anyone. No one is helped by ignoring the reality of what sin is—an act of rebellion against God. I believe homosexual acts are what should be focused on as sinful, just like any other sin is an action. People must be disabused of the very notion of homosexual identity.
Author:  acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  buttrfli24:
I guess what I am getting at is that because homosexuality is tied to identity for those who are involved in it, it seems to require a little more nuance and compassion. Certainly the sin must be repented of and turned away from but how can the church help, as in the situation I described, what has been existing as a family unit to move on to a life in Christ free from sin?As I said previously and now again, I mean you no disrespect and don't feel my comments were personal attacks. I am sorry if you felt they were. I am not here to cause problems but rather am seeking counsel from what I consider to be in general terms a gathering of wise ladies and gentlemen. This is a message board, yes and that offers limitations but I do not think those limitations prevent detailed and thoughtful discussion. Again, my apologies if you are offended by my words. That is not my intent
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