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Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Tom Sterbens: For "Isa 58:12"...

This post is NOT in the spirit of my current random satirical sniping from the bleachers .AND...Given that years ago you and I engaged on the same point/topic of engagement, unto no clear end... I am not seeking to re-engage...But as I have perused to exchange in the version 2.0 exchange largely between you and Brad...I have had a thought. SO...please don't assume where I am headed with the following question...there is no Gotcha! for which I am setting you up. I just think I may be hearing something in your words I may have missed...So...can you tell me how you see where how the message/reality of The Kingdom of God fitting into or informing your theological world-view??

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Isa 58:12: Re: For "Isa 58:12"...

. Why thank you, I remember talking to you, I enjoyed it, I don't remember your sarcasm, I may suffer from that too ðŸ˜. ðŸ¤” Kingdom of G-d, let me tell you a little about how I believe we're supposed to live by the Kingdom Rule's in His Torah/Teachings/Instructions, there wouldn't be so much junk in the world, denominations, etcI live a Messianic life style & it can be a challenge, but I love how Gal 2:20says it; with Messiah I have been crucified, and no more do I live, but Messiah lives in me, and that which I now live in the Body, I live in the faith of the Son of G-d, who loved me and gave Himself for me. So try to live my life for Him & like Him.That is a gigantic Truth of a Messianic life, living by the Kings Instructions/Teachings/Laws. Luke 17:21; neither shall I say, Lo here or Lo there behold the Kingdom of G-d is within you. His Laws are written on our hearts Jer 31:33, & it is the Torah. Num 15:16; One Law/Torah and one manor shall be for you (Jew), and for the stranger/Gentile that's sojourns with you. This is our family, the Kings Way.Living by His Kingdom Rules is the Foundational of Truth in who Messiah is (John 5:46-47), He's our King who's coming to set up His Kingdom & Rule from the New Jerusalem ðŸ˜€. What do u think that will look like?ðŸ˜‰But I love being a disciple of Y'shua, it is a life grounded in Y'shua & grounded in His Word. When we think & act contrary to who Messiah is, we r living contrary to who we are. I try to live,/disciple/copy how the Master lived, thought, walked, ate, etc, like He did. In my life, if it doesn't line up with the life of Messiah and the Word of G-d, I flush itIf we remain in opposition to the Word, living according to our own desires and ways of doing things, we will be hindered in our ability to become the effective disciples of Messiah that we were made to be, we were made in His image Gen 1:27ðŸ˜®. That's not the Kings Way. If we (Col 3:3-4) are to truly be Messiahs disciples, this is the life we must choose today, a life that is totally and completely sold out to the Master, a life wholeheartedly devoted to Y'shua & His Torah, Way. Matt 3:3, 4:17Every believer and you sure is called to be a disciple of Messiah, 8 disciples more than just a student, he follows the way of his master so that you would become(Matt 10:24-25) just like Him.Bottom line, & believe me, I haven't even cracked my knuckles to get started, this sort of topic can't really be discussed shortly. That's why mine and your conversations in the past went on so long ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜‡But living by the Kingdom Principles, the Word/Torah, the Word of G-d can change our lives if we will accept its Authority and do it. we will be walking in the Spirit, living by the Word. But only faith in the Messiah Y'shua can sin in the flesh be condemned and the Torahs Righteous requirements be fulfilledI Love Y'shua, Yod, Hey, Vav, Hey, I love His Torah, the Kingdom Rules & i love Y'srael & the Jewish people, I'm fellow citizens with them Eph 2:19-20. ðŸ˜‡. I hope I answered something here for you LOLShalo Ps 122:6

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Tom Sterbens:

See how this might resonate with you...perhaps the labels are just different Dallas Willard: The Gospel of the Kingdom vs. The Gospel of Atonement

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Isa 58:12:

ðŸ¤”, Please don't be offended Tom, but nothing resonated with me. It's not the gospel of Atonement, it's the gospel of repentance that brings Atonement. There was no mention of repentance in the article. Or how to really live for G-d in His Kingdom by living by His CommandmentsI think the guy said it right in the article about the man that wanted to divorce his wife because he was in love with another wife, and the Pastor said you can't do that, and the man said yeah I can you said Jesus forgive me my sins He died on the cross or something like that. And the man said there was really no answer for that or something like that. I would have to read the article againBut that's what I'm saying, if there's no such Standard to live by, G-d's Laws, then anything goes. Back when I was on a long time ago and now, there are threads talking about churches closing down, disturbing things, gay pastors, etc, & that's the only thing that can happen when you throw out G-d's Law's and think they don't apply to you todayShalo Ps 122:6

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Tom Sterbens:

ðŸ¤”, Please don't be offended Tom, but nothing resonated with me. It's not the gospel of Atonement, it's the gospel of repentance that brings Atonement. There was no mention of repentance in the article. Or how to really live for G-d in His Kingdom by living by His CommandmentsI think the guy said it right in the article about the man that wanted to divorce his wife because he was in love with another wife, and the Pastor said you can't do that, and the man said yeah I can you said Jesus forgive me my sins He died on the cross or something like that. And the man said there was really no answer for that or something like that. I would have to read the article again Actually that is the point of the whole interview...Dallas Willard was a passionate advocate that a Gospel of Atonement is what is being preached today when the Gospel of the Kingdom is what Jesus preached...and the Gospel of Atonement alone leaves us a gospel that hopefully can get us to heaven but will do nothing to alter how we live (That is my paraphrase/summary).Here is a quote...check it out:

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Dave Dorsey:

Tom -- same caveats, no agenda, no nothing, just curious about your thoughts.Do you think those who receive the gospel of atonement become genuinely regenerated?

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Tom Sterbens:

Dave,Not to parse words...But the longer I live and the more I study scripture the more concerned I am about the use of terms like genuine or authentic or whatever, when discussing matters of embraced faith. Here's my problem:On the one hand I think we have reduced the salvation experience prayer to something more akin to a type of spiritual Harry Potter incantation. You know, Repeat these words after me and you are magically...saved. Then on the other hand there seems to be a tribe of salvation Nazi's that offer no validation of salvation whatsoever without an attending witness of altered behavior - and the listing of that behavior is very different depending on who you ask. So.....with respect to the conversation at hand, When does regeneration genuinely happen? Or...Does the 'Gospel of Atonement' provide the spiritual substance for genuine regeneration? I don't know... And the reason I don't is both on the part of the listener/respondent and on the part of the preacher/presenter of the Gospel of Atonement...and then, who is it that decides a gospel presentation has just crossed the threshold of becoming a Gospel of Atonement message.As I have written elsewhere...

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Dave Dorsey:

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Tom Sterbens:

Thanks for the answer. That makes two of us. I think the evidence of transformation should be evident over the long trajectory of a person's life if genuine repentance and salvation has taken place, but on any smaller timescale, it is very difficult to say. Over the last several years I have been floating toward more reformed soteriology, and that has resulted in a lot of meditation and consternation on this topic. I now view regeneration as a monergistic singular event that results, on its own, in the bearing of fruit, and so I'd say as a matter of theology that only people who truly receive the gospel of the Kingdom and bear fruit in accordance with the nature of that regenerated life are saved. But show me 10 people and ask me to point out the ones for whom that is true? Can't do it. And so as a matter of orthopraxy we have to wrestle through the kind of stuff you mention, and the only answer for any of it is I don't know, so I might as well treat everyone with love and continue to proclaim the gospel to them all, myself first and foremost. Amen!And as quickly as I think I may have formulated something defined and anywhere near air tight...then I am brought face to face with the whole thief on the cross reality. That one sort of blows everything up...not to mention Cornelius in Acts 10...blah, blah, blah...

Author:	acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ]
Post subject:	Isa 58:12:

ðŸ¤”, Please don't be offended Tom, but nothing resonated with me. It's not the gospel of Atonement, it's the gospel of repentance that brings Atonement. There was no mention of repentance in the article. Or how to really live for G-d in His Kingdom by living by His CommandmentsI think the guy said it right in the article about the man that wanted to divorce his wife because he was in love with another wife, and the Pastor said you can't do that, and the man said yeah I can you said Jesus forgive me my sins He died on the cross or something like that. And the man said there was really no answer for that or something like that. I would have to read the article again Actually that is the point of the whole interview...Dallas Willard was a passionate advocate that a Gospel of Atonement is what is being preached today when the Gospel of the Kingdom is what Jesus preached...and the Gospel of Atonement alone leaves us a gospel that hopefully can get us to heaven but will do nothing to alter how we live (That is my paraphrase/summary).Here is a quote...check it out:

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