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| Two times God didn't heal... https://www.acts20.com/viewtopic.php?t=88276 |
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| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Aaron Scott: Two times God didn't heal... |
| We remember that story of David's illegitimate son who died in infancy. Then, you will recall that King Jeroboam sent his wife to the prophet Ahijah regarding their sick child, but the child died anyway.In both of these cases, the sins of the fathers seemed to close heaven to their plight. That is, it seems that the way God punished these men was to allow their child to die.That's OT, of course, but I wonder if it might be instructive in our debates regarding healing? While I argue that it is ALWAYS God's will to heal (IF IF IF we can touch Him in faith), there appear to be situations where men sabotage matters. When someone comes to us for healing prayer, we should NOT blame them if they don't get healed...but at the same time, it behooves us to at least pay attention to this person's relationship with God. It might be that the life they are leading short circuits the healing that otherwise would have come.AND we should look at ourselves. Just because we prayed for them, laid hands on them, anointed them with oil, and the such does NOT mean that we actually had healing faith. Of course, we don't want it to be our fault, and so we may point the finger at THEIR faith...or claim that it must not be God's will to heal. |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Nature Boy Florida: |
| I don't think the OT is instructive in these cases |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | FLRon: Re: Two times God didn't heal... |
| Short answer is NO, neither case plays a role in why people are not being healed today. Because you are coming from the (false, IMO) premise that it is always God’s will to heal, you must continually search for a reason why when it doesn’t happen. Even a cursory look at the volume of Christians who die daily from all manner of diseases should tell you that God, in his Sovereignty, heals whom he chooses to heal. And yes, that is very hard for most to accept.Like you, not looking for a debate, just making my thoughts known “Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.” |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Old Time Country Preacher: Re: Two times God didn't heal... |
| Short answer is NO, neither case plays a role in why people are not being healed today. Because you are coming from the (false, IMO) premise that it is always God’s will to heal, you must continually search for a reason why when it doesn’t happen. Even a cursory look at the volume of Christians who die daily from all manner of diseases should tell you that God, in his Sovereignty, heals whom he chooses to heal. And yes, that is very hard for most to accept.Like you, not looking for a debate, just making my thoughts known. |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Aaron Scott: FLRon... |
| Short answer is NO, neither case plays a role in why people are not being healed today. Because you are coming from the (false, IMO) premise that it is always God’s will to heal, you must continually search for a reason why when it doesn’t happen. Even a cursory look at the volume of Christians who die daily from all manner of diseases should tell you that God, in his Sovereignty, heals whom he chooses to heal. And yes, that is very hard for most to accept.Like you, not looking for a debate, just making my thoughts known. I hear you and thank you for your kind spirit. One of my issues with the WOD'ers (Word of Doubters) is that they ignore that vast evidence that Jesus and the apostles had ENORMOUS success in praying for the sick...and instead seek to find any exception they can, claiming that it somehow proves that God doesn't want to heal everyone.But what they don't do is say, However, from the scriptures, it seems that it is God's will to heal a WHOLE LOT MORE THAN ARE BEING HEALED!You never hear that. No, their faith is perfect before God (of course!), and it God doesn't heal it's not due to THEIR lack of faith...nope, it's God's fault. I prayed a mighty and powerful prayer of faith that, had I not carefully worded it, would have raised up every single sick person on earth because of my mighty faith...but God wanted this person sick--and the last 200 I prayed for too--so that's why it didn't happen.Facetious, yes. True? Pretty much. |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Cojak: |
| Just my opinion, but the lack of miracles might have to do with the times. Normally if we Christians start having symptoms on Monday or Tuesday we will first try some drugstore or home remedy. We may even go to an urgent care unit with our Ins. Card. THEN if nothing works we will possibly call for the elders of the church (or a phone call to the pastor). But a SERIOUS TALK with the Lord is usually the last ditch effort, just being honest here.There was a time the average COG member had little money and NO INSURANCE. Prayer was FIRST! I only pastored 6 years, but followed my dad's suggestions. I never carried Ins and always depended on prayer. It worked for us, looking back. That is not necessarily true now, to my shame. Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/ |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Old Time Country Preacher: Re: FLRon... |
| Since OTCP is one of the WOD'-ers of which Aaron speaks, not that I am a Word of Doubter, but that is what Aaron has called me, I believe it would be germane for me to speak.Here goes, Aaron, there is vast evidence that Jesus and the apostles had ENORMOUS success praying for the sick. Yes, I believe this to be true. And I believe it to be true because of what the Bible states in John 20:30-31, The disciples saw Jesus do many other miraculous signs in addition to the ones recorded in this book. But these are written so that you may continue to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing in him you will have life by the power of his name. |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | diakoneo: |
| Cojak... |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Aaron Scott: |
| OTCP...cessationist??? |
| Author: | acts [ Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Aaron Scott: |
| Since OTCP is one of the WOD'-ers of which Aaron speaks, not that I am a Word of Doubter, but that is what Aaron has called me, I believe it would be germane for me to speak.Here goes, Aaron, there is vast evidence that Jesus and the apostles had ENORMOUS success praying for the sick. Yes, I believe this to be true. And I believe it to be true because of what the Bible states in John 20:30-31, The disciples saw Jesus do many other miraculous signs in addition to the ones recorded in this book. But these are written so that you may continue to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing in him you will have life by the power of his name.Jesus' ministry of healing was first, foremost and primarily soteriological in nature. The physical healings wrought by Christ served as validation of his messianic claims. They in no way suggested that God would physically heal 100% of the time, nor that it was promised he would do such a thing. OTCP, that is basically the SAME argument that cessationists use! Miracles and wonders were done because God was establishing the church and/or the Bible was being written. But at some point, healing and miracles were no longer needed....Now, OTCP, I know you are not a cessationist. But let's take your statement of : This in no way suggested that God would physically heal 100% of the time. OK, let's assume that is true (which I don't believe, but still).... We go from 100% healing to, maybe, 10%? MAYBE??? If that??? Let me ask you OTCP, when is it YOUR fault that a person you pray for doesn't get healed. Can you at least give me some vague approximation of the percentage it is NOT GOD'S WILL TO HEAL...and how many didn't get healed because their faith--or your faith--was insufficient?Why can it be that it is God's will that ALL be saved (even though all are NOT saved), but it's just unthinkable, apparently, that it would be God's will to heal ALL? |
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