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On Facebook a few days ago, someone posted a video by Michael Heisler, a PhD in Old Testament studies. He has a number of videos. One thing he focuses on a lot is the idea of the divine council. I'll give you a summary of what he teaches. A lot of this stuff were things I saw in the Bible, heard in Old Testament in college, or picked up from talking with a Old Testament scholar friend of mine, but Heisler connects the dots.Here are some of the ideas he talks about&058;- The Old Testament mentions the sons of God. Satan came to appear before God among the sons of god in Job.- Heisler believes the sons of god in these passages are heavenly beings. He calls them members of the heavenly host. In some passages, entities besides God are referred to as 'elohim'. I noticed this studying Hebrews. The New Testament says 'Thou hast made him a little lower than the angels'-- but the Hebrew is elohim. Elohim can be translated 'God' in some context and 'gods' in others.- The Old Testament (Dead Sea Scrolls and LXX tradition) says that God divided the nations according to the number of the sons of God.- There are verses in the Old Testament about other nations being alloted to other elohim/gods.- God partners with and allows created beings to rule various things. We see this also with man. - He believes there were 70 or 72 of these ruling spirits, presumably based on the number of nations in the table of nations in Genesis.- Heisler believes that this refers back to the nations being divided after Babel, when men were trying to build a temple to interact with God on their own terms.- Heisler mentions the 'prince of Persia' as an example of such a being.- He believes God divided up the nations to heavenly beings to take care of them after the problem at Babel, and chose Israel as His own inheritance, starting the process by calling Abraham. - He takes Psalm 82to be about God in the council with the elohim there, to be about heavenly beings, not human judges. Heisler says God finds fault with their unjust ruling of nations given into their care. The last verse says that the LORD will inherit the nations.- A Messianic Psalm offers the nations as an inheritance. (I think Heisler mentioned that.)- In the New Testament, Paul wrote of principalities, powers, and other 'territorial' type rulers in heavenly realms.- Christ has been given all authority on heaven and on earth.- Christ's return is associated with 'the fullness of the Gentiles' as Christ will inherit the nations.- He points out similarities between the languages spoken at Pentecost, other conversion stories in Acts, and the table of nations.- He believes Paul wanted to get to Spain to reach Tarshish, from the table of nations, after having evangelized many of the other nations mentioned in Genesis.- Heisler thinks Paul had this same Old Testament understanding that these 'elohim' over the nations were territorial spirits, principalities or powers, who wanted to resist the kingdoms being given over to the Lord as His inheritance. So basically, a summary is that there are these beings, that he believes are described as 'sons of god', who were entrusted with care of nations. They were rebellious and treated men badly and ended up being worshipped as gods. The Lord will take away these nations, and they are condemned to die like men and fall like princes. A major step toward the Lord reclaiming the nations is seen at Pentecost as the apostles begin on a journey that takes the gospel to the nations. Heislers interpretation of Psalm 82makes sense. It does seem odd that it would be about injustice among other nations and not Israel considering the focus of the Old Testament, but the last verse is about God inheriting the nations. Heisler does not believe he is filling in gaps with extra-biblical sources, but thinks world view is important. The Ugaritic archeological finds with Ugarit worshipping a pantheon that had El as the head of it seems to fit with this idea of the sons of god being some kind of ruling council. But it does not rely totally on it. He does argue that having an ancient world view that they would have had is important. I've noticed references to other gods in the Pentateuch over the years, I've encountered the idea of the divine council, probably in college in a Bible class or in a conversation with someone who studies such things. I've also heard about 'territorial spirits' and a bit of teaching on principalities and powers from being exposed to the Charismatic movement. So some of this stuff fits with things I've learned and studied, but he kind of connected some dots I hadn't connected. There are some assumptions, though. So I'm still mulling it over. I notice Paul wrote about God demonstrating his wisdom to principalities and powers in heavenly places to the church.If all this is the case, I do wonder about these spiritual entities as they relate to Satan. Paul wrote about the prince and power of the air. So it may be that these entities that came to be worshipped as gods follow him. Job says that with His angels, He finds fault. But it does seem like there are plenty of 'good guy' angels. Does it seem odd if every single one of the territorial spirits failed and was judged, but not all the angels? But look at the mess with humanity and the fall.Here is a link. What do you think? www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGU9v7Ik20g

It seems the Bible reveals a hierarchy of angels, both faithful and fallen. Likewise, in the battle for mankind's redemption there is a war going on in the spiritual realm on our behalf. Angels are created and eternal beings whose substance is spirit, though they can be seen by man when God ordains it. Man first of all is a physical being (dust of the earth) who became a living soul when God breathed His Spirit in. Man was created in God's image, angels were not. Jesus died and was resurrected that he could resurrected all of man (body, soul and Spirit) in a gloried state. Fallen angels have no offer of redemption (they have no physical body to resurrect and no soul to save) and are ordained to eternal hell with their leader Satan. There is a war on between God and evil for mankind, and it does seem that it is territorial. The good news is that Jesus is Lord over all angels, powers, principalities, and due to the cross the current and final victory as been won. The danger for Christian is the thought that we must understand the angel realm, when all we need to know is Jesus rules all realms. The worship of angels, and prayer to angels, is condemned in the New Testament, and the Bible tells us the idols of the nations are immersed in demons. The idol is just wood and stone - part of he physical world, but the spirit(s) of the idols are demonic. Idol worship and demon worship, any where in the world, are a synonymous act.

I heard Heisler say something I heard in a religion department of a secular university, the idea that 'Let us make man in our own image' could have been God talking to the divine counsel. I am used to trinitarian explanations of that. Heisler thinks these beings are made in God's image also. If we disagree with that, we cannot say from scripture whether angels are made in God's image. We know that He did make man in God's image.

Just a couple of points:I don't see the creative power to reproduce which results in living souls given to angels and I don't see animals - or plants - having the Spirit of God which makes them a living soul even thought they can reproduce their kind. Angels were created at some point in God's creative activities, along with the universe and man, but I don't see angels as agents of creating living souls. They are eternal spirits (ministering spirits Hebrews says), but they lack being in the image of God. The use of the phrase sons of God can be use of angels in a paternal since, as in God, the Father of us all, but angels can not rise to the level of the only begotten of the Father - that is of the same substance. The Living Creatures, as recorded in both Ezekiel and Revelation, could be angels in God's hierarchy of creation as well.

If he had to work with a committee. Can't you imagine...Let's refer this to a committeeLet's table this until next timeLet's move the previous questionI propose an amandmentThe chair is not entertaining motions at this timeThis is my first time speaking on the throne room floorWHAT A NIGHTMARE!!!!

The revealed God is, has always been and will always be of one mind.

Some churches have committees. Does God work through those churches? The Bible says that with His angels doth He find fault. There seems to be some hierarchy in the spiritual realm as well, among created beings. So it's not all committee meetings.Heisler brings the story of Micaiah in when discussing the divine council, where spirits proposed plans to deceive Ahab and one volunteered to be a deceiving spirit to deceive him to go up to Ramoth-Gilead. They proposed ideas in the story until the Lord approved one of them

Some church has committees. Does God work through those churches? The Bible says that with His angels doth He find fault. There seems to be some hierarchy in the spiritual realm as well, among created beings. So it's not all committee meetings.Heisler brings the story of Micaiah in when discussing the divine council, where spirits proposed plans to deceive Ahab and one volunteered to be a deceiving spirit to deceive him to go up to Ramoth-Gilead. They proposed ideas in the story until the Lord approved one of them. Sometimes I think God moves in spite of our committees, not because of them.

There are two things about this theory that were a bit different from how I thought before. The first is the idea that the demons/guardian spirits/territorial spirits may have been appointed by God at or after the Babel event to take care of mankind. The second is the idea that they may not have been 'fallen angels' at that time, but that their judgment may have been decreed later.Heisler points out that the passage about a third of the stars of heaven is in the book of Revelation and there is no indication it happened in the distant past. So how is Satan's kingdom structured? Is he the head of all the other demons, or is the kingdom of Satan smaller than that? Is he over all of them-- they have territories and he roams the earth