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Have you been to one of these church events where at the end everyone holds hands, mutters a few words & as they're leaving somebody declares that everyone is now saved because they basically recited a poem?What ever happened to a genuine conversion? If you want to be a Muslim there are a strict set of precepts, observations & conditions that must be adhered to or else you're not in good standing & you cannot venture to Mecca for the pilgrimage. If you want to be embrace a Hindu/Hindi belief it's pretty much the same as the Muslims minus the Mecca trip.Buddhism has over 500 million followers who observe moral precepts monasticism & meditation. Most followers have a statue of the fat little guy in their home & their place of business. Those within the community keep each other aware of their need to achieve liberation to the point of nirvana.Even Catholics have a saying that says something like, 'give us a child at 8 enrolled in catechism & they'll be a Catholic for life.'If you join the Masons, Moose, Elks or even the Royal Order of Water Buffalo (Fred Flintstone style) you're expected to live up to the code of conduct, pay your dues, excel in the ranks & invite new potential members to come on board.But if you are a Christian there seems to be a growing tide of followers who will lower the bar, water down the message, accept all types of beliefs (even those that are contrary to the truth) & embrace any/all people who just mumble the name of our God as if they deserve the right hand of fellowship.Where is the tear stained altar, the dedicated life, the desire to pray, seek, study & show oneself as a student of the word? Rock stars, leading men, starlets of every craft will get up at any one of these award ceremonies & they'll give empty praise to God for His blessings on their dirty accomplishments & we'll have seasoned saints who attribute sainthood on one of these fake believers. In Matt. 23 Jesus called people like this, '...sons of vipers ...'I know we're all about grace but even the writer said in Romans 7that grace is no license to a life of sin. Did Paul say it right or do we interpret it wrong?NO! We don't need a set of laws to govern our walk with God, thanks be to Christ for His grace & mercy.At the same time should we not at least expect people to respect our beliefs enough so that the basics of what we believe & teach are indisputable? Too many people teach that all we have to do is say a little poem or mutter a few words & 'abbra-kadabbra ...boom' you're saved. I think our salvation is priceless & it deserves a lot more than just a wink & a nod.For me I believe it takes a whole heart in a spirit of repentance in order for one to begin this walk with Christ Empty nest syndrome is for the birds!Email me at: [email protected] planters are focused on just one thing ...introducing people to Jesus!

I couldn't agree more, Dean. As always we should want to guard ourselves against teaching any kind of works righteousness -- but those who are truly and genuinely saved will bear fruit in keeping with repentance.Our church rarely does altar calls for salvation. There are regular altar calls for prayer, repentance, etc. -- but very rarely for salvation. The belief among the pastors and elders is (correctly, IMO) that if God is working in someone's heart and they are responding with faith and trust, then He will bring that work to fulfillment. The gospel and the need for salvation is declared EVERY service and in every sermon, and the pastors express that anyone who has decided to put their faith in Christ should come tell one of them, or someone else in the church, and they trust that people in whom God is genuinely working will do so.I believe many pastors are afraid that God may be working in someone's heart, but if they don't push that person to a moment of specific decision, the work will be lost and the person will not be saved. That would be laughable if it weren't so sad. Jesus said, All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

This is a subject that tears at my soul. I’ve heard it said from the pulpit that “I don’t care what you believe outside of here”. I couldn’t believe my ears! To hear it said “repeat this prayer after me and at the end of the prayer you will be a Christian” causes me to want to put my fingers in my ears and run out of the building. Has the cog backslid?Whatever happened to the Holy Ghost convicting a person of their sins? I’m almost ready to say that true repentance is the exception rather than the rule “Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”

Up until the advent of the ‘sinner’s prayer’ method, invented by Billy Sunday and honed to perfection by Billy Graham, virtually all evangelicals held that the preparatory work of the law was necessary in order to bring conviction, that repentance was essential to true conversion, and that the moral law of God (aka, the law of love) remained the standard of living for the faithful to aim for, the grace of God working in them both to will and to do according to His good pleasure.

I totally agree with what Dean and the other posters shared in this thread.My soul is also extremely grieved when I see Christians who don't know any better due to erroneous teaching on salvation. What is even sadder is seeing people and pastors who were raised with the truth falling for the quick fix, simpler way to church growth just believe Christianity. We will all answer to God and I pray for those caught in these errors. We know John the Baptist preached repentance. The Bible tells us that after Jesus heard John was put in prison, From that time Jesus began to preach and say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” MT. 4:17. Paul taught repentance toward God and faith in Christ, Acts 20:20-21:you know how I did not shrink from declaring to you anything that was profitable, and teaching you publicly and from house to house, 21 solemnly testifying to both Jews and Greeks of repentance toward God and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

What grieves me most is listening to degreed, 30+ year cog pastors who allow false teachings to be taught in their church because they don’t possess the “equipment” necessary to confront them. It seems as if some have learned that it’s easier to go along than confront the error. When did this become acceptable behavior from the pulpit?Because of this and several other issues that are taking place I am nearing a crossroads where I will have to make a decision about where I attend church. The more I see and learn the more inclined I am to understand why so many these days simply stop going to a traditional church “Hell will be filled with people that didn’t cuss, didn’t drink, and may even have been baptized. Why? Because none of those things makes someone a Christian.”

Is the problem on the discipleship side of the Great Commission? Do we led people to Christ as a finish line and not a starting gate?It seems the after activities of the growing churches today are that of teaching children about performance, like a music and drama academy, because every parent likes to see their kids on stage (maybe they will go viral, or better yet, to America's Got Talent or be a Disney Kid). I think many parents would rather have their kids be stars instead of servants.Youth are the focus of a shock and awe high energy, high tech, music driven event each week which is repetitious in its scriptural focus and warps a personal relationship with Jesus into a concert experience of the masses. No wonder they find adult church boring and drop out when they age out of the youth ministry.Then there are the parents, who are tying to emulate the current culture and respond to a leadership who is cultural cool and plugged in. They want to hear about how to be a success in relationships, if not the one their in then the next. They want DIY shortcuts on parenting and Christianity alike, and the only real problem they see in the church is those Christians who are old school and promote outdated values. They are good with their church and love to be there when they are not at the lake, on vacation or taking a me day on a Sunday.I have been blessed to be the pastor of some Jamaican church members who began their walk with Jesus on the island as a child. There Sunday School and Children's Church was about memorizing scriptures and repeating they in front of the church between Sunday School and Morning Worship. This foundation has keep them faithful over the years and in the many nations they have immigrated to. They find the church or start a church, taking their faith with them.In America, some people's faith cannot even stand a move to a new suburb or city, much less across country to a big city. I'm glad retirement from the pastoral ministry is not too many years hence. I'm thankful those (many older) who attend church regularly, pray mighty, given generously and serve faithfully. They learned the hard way through wars and economic down turns, faithfully building their families and staying with their spouses in good and bad times. Working with their pastor to build their church.Mat

I am smiling, but I did appreciate the comment on the post. sometimes there is truth and honesty in frustration. ;') I never was a drug addict or dealer so I do not know that feeling. The pastor of the storefront we have chosen to attend for the last month was. He has been clean now for 15 years. The dude is still on fire and aggressively seeking addicts and dealers. In 5 years he has actually won 5. That might not sound like much, but there have been a hundred failures at least. These REAL converts are a thrill to talk with.This group has a good order of service. nice music praise offering then preaching. NO LOUD music, just worship led by the pastor.Actuality the sermons are good. He is funny at times, statements like, really I am a preacher called of God, might not sound like it now, but it is true.We know we will not be here long, we are transient awaiting our RV repairs. But in honesty the pastor seems real and is dedicated to reaching the lost. I'm outta here son just came passing thru. Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/