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We missed our home church this morning to attend our lastest great granddaughters dedication or christening. The ceremony was at 'City Church in Charlotte, NC. The pastor is from England and I could understand him even with the heavy accent during the dedication. I once heard Loran do a dedication that was the BEST until this guy today. We all know the dedication is for the parents, the baby is too young to even know. She will have to decide her own destiny later. Until then it is the parent.None of that is what this is about. Since once the pastor started his sermon he lost me. Like many ministers, I can't hear fast enough to keep up, so I observed.The average age was close to 26-30. I did not observe anyone 'inattentive' except me. I saw young people devouring the word. (My wife declared the pastor did a great job and was 'spot-on'.) Then there was an alter call. I have only seen this at the Belmont 4 SQ church under Bro. Aldridge. There were young deacons lined the front. I was so pleased to see at least 30 young people and one grey haired dude go forward.Just observing it seemed the deacons knew what they were doing, there were some smiles, lifted hands and MANY tears as Christ was accepted.THAT IS WHEN I REALIZED. Except for the dress code, long haired dudes and some INK. I was seeing the COG in 1950. The church was packed but no one left until after the alter call was complete and people made a public commitment and confession. Much praising God.This is the part I do not understand. I do not understand K-mart allowing Walmart to put them out of business. Poor management. K mart should have known by smart business moves and seeing far ahead they had destroyed their competition and won. Now new management with all logistics in place, buildings built they could not compete with an upstart.Now to the church world and our COG. These community churches are going to 'put us out of business' because we could not see and read the writing on the wall. Our 'management stayed the same' now we are paying for it.Please do not tell me there is not Christians there. Please do not tell me they are so shallow they will not succeed and grow. We have attended several Community and congregational churches, I felt the love of God and dedication to win souls.This church is 'down town', it is also close to the 'hood'. These people witness, baby sit, send story-tellers into the WILD to win the kids. They are doing it. Just like we used to do. But by 'NOT DOING' something(?) we have lost our youth. I think the average in the COG's we attend is above 60.This is not an indictment, just an observation. We in the pew are at fault. Our leadership going back 20 - 30 years is to blame by stressing 'new programs' created by men who had not tried them. and watching a downward spiral and not finding the way to arrest it.City Church here may fold but they are trying. They are winning the poor and the yuppie. They are tapping every modern device known. They receive no offering. They have a collection box built in as you walk out if you haven't given on line. I personally missed my church and pastor Danny. I was an observer, a visitor. I saw hundreds of young people, including my grandson and his beautiful wife, who loved the Lord.i don't have the answer, I was able to grow one church out of three I pastored in my short time. I feel for you pastors who are fighting the battle. I do love the Church of God. I feel like I am part of a family. HOWEVER Being part of a family ain't no fun when everyone else in the family has died. At the loss of my sister in the past few weeks, that leaves me as the last of a family of 9, that part ain't no fun.It is tough seeing my church family also dying. Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

We attended a PH church today in a tiny town where my son in law was preaching. He's been preaching there this month. He will be ordained in the PH church next week.Their newest songbook is from 1987. They opened with what is traditionally a funeral song. Their youngest member is in her 40s or 50s. But it doesn't appear they are interested in change.I think you're right in some of your observations. If we don't reach out to the lost, to the youth in a way that's meaningful to them, we're going to lose them.Two of my three children are not in church today. That grieves me. My older son just got disgusted with how things in church were, and he eventually lost his faith entirely.I don't think we should ignore our seniors or middle-aged people's desires, but we need to find a way to blend the needs of all, not an either/or mentality. My daughter told me that her former church (a COG) was told by prospective ministers of music that they just don't do blended music anymore. Makes me think of the old Vep Ellis song, Win the Lost at Any Cost. More of Him...less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name

Cojak, you are spot on. I, too, have noticed that, at least for the Church of God in the southeast, we are in decline. There are some Churches of God that are on the way up, but too many are not.I was reading the other day that one of the last stages before a church goes on life support (barely or completely unable to pay their bills, etc.) is when they are working to NOT LOSE ANYONE. We all know there is a difference in playing to win...and playing not to lose. I believe my own church, being 105-years-old in a poor and declining town, is largely at this stage. It MAY BE that the Church of God, which is much larger outside of the USA than in the USA, was here for a strategic moment. It might be that we played a role in the creation of Pentecostal momentum in the world, helping to plant and cultivate it overseas, etc. And it may be that our best move at some point will be to fold into another organization, or serve as something of a consultant to Pentecostal churches outside of denominations. Who know? It seems certain that the Church of God has stagnated in the USA--probably, I think, because so many independent churches meet the needs that, before, only the Pentecostal churches met. Think of it like this: R.G. Spurling played a huge role in the birth and advancement of the early Church of God. Later, he was put out of the very church that he helped to found! And yet he played the role, it seems, that God had for him. Same with A.J. Tomlinson. The Methodist Church is in significant decline...and yet we drew from Methodist ideology for the Church of God. For all we know, some churches may be around to reach one particular family...and so fulfill God's purposes for the future.

I spent time in a country that has the largest COG national conference. They were a denomination that split off of a split off of..... I don't know how many splits... from a denomination connection to a church in the Pacific Northwest (I'm thinking Oregon) that was around soon after the Azusa Street Revival. They teamed up later with the COG. Gereja Bethel Indonesia, or GBI, is different from the COG stylistically. It's charismatic in style, the ones I went to, anyway. They'll be singing and then have everyone sing their own song or sing in tongues for a long time, something I associate with Charismatics more than Pentecostals. Some of them tell everyone to speak in tongues at the same time. Or I saw that in the late 1990's. GBI has grown a lot and I think it is still growing. I think one positive growth secret is more intensity in prayer, more meetings for prayer, etc. A national prayer network my wife was involved with had 2 million members nationwide there-- not GBI, but a parachurch organization, but it shows the emphasis on prayer. Some of the GBI prayer meetings may be more Charismatic in style.Usually its the GPDI denomination that is like this, I hear, but I have heard of a GBI with lots of 'holiness rules' about dress, TV, etc. Some of the GBI growth seems to come from attracting attendees from 'traditional churches', Reformed and Lutheran, etc. One of the large ethnic Lutheran denominations has started having modern music. So we'll see if the youth go to Charismatic churches. Oh yeah, GBI, COG in Indonesia, usually gets called 'Charismatic.' Some people think Pentecostal means GPDI. Indonesian Charismatics I have asked say the difference is Pentecostals cry a lot and emphasize the day of Pentecost and getting filled with the Spirit on that day and speaking in tongues.I went to one non-English speaking A/G when I was there. The style was much like in the US, without the part where everyone sings their own song or sings in tongue like in GBI.I suspect there is a lot of real evangelism going on. Evangelism seems to get preached on less there than I heard growing up in the US, though the last GBI I spent some time in talked and prayed about it a lot. GBI sings contemporary worship style stongs, but I haven't seen any blacklights. By contemporary, I mean hymns. It's probably a little more like 1990's church choruses. The styles aren't quite the megachurch styles you hear in the US. I think there may be a couple of other smaller Charismatic denominations that look a bit like a US megachurch and have that sound

Re: Music of GA18

The praise team music was contemporary last night. Haven't seen anything from tonight.Quite a few folks at GA love Jason Crabb & the Crabb Family. And the live feed lit up like a Christmas tree while they were singing. There will always be Southern Gospel as long as Bishop Hill is leading the service More of Him...less of me.twitter.com/camiracle77www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=691241499&ref=name

Hey Link, our church in E Belmont was blessed with about 25 Indonesians who had come to USA to evangelize. They set a fire in our church with their worship enthusiasm. Their Visa expired and they returned to Indonesia. They left with a promise to return next year. They were a thrill and joy to see and worship with. I have no idea who they were connected with, but they did street ministry in Charlotte during the week and brought some converts with them on Sunday.I miss them Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/

I am not sure I agree completely, but we have missed the boat somewhere, and I am not smart enough to SEE IT! I haven't thought about it, but YES the older COG folks shout the house down 'at the Old things'. BUT in our travels I do not see that in the growing churches. I do not see it in the larger community churches either. We need more forward thinkers and need a way to 'INJECT' that feeling I had in Travis's church down south. Not just singling out Travis, but he came to mind first. We have many like him and they are needed in leadership.As I said, I am not sure it is the music but we old people are nostalgic. I dated a sweet COG girl and smooched to 'Memories are made of This.' Although it was sang by a SINNER. I still love that song and other love songs from the 50's, but I am not stuck there. I know I will never be 16-17 again. Although I do relish hearing those songs (what little I hear) but I KNOW I am not 16 and do not try to act it. I see the younger generation and they have no idea why we get all teary eyed at 'Nat King Cole' or VEP ELLIS! Our music man brought the house down, (all 25 of us) singing 'All the Heroes Will Be there'. I enjoyed it too, then I realized I was there in 1953-54 when VEP sang it at a song book promotion in Lenoir NC.But COGW you have some good points, when the shouting dies, growth doesn't happen, it was just a great personal experience of yesteryear.. Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/