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Rom 8:29  For whom he did

Re: I am certainly not going to get involved

I believe that this text is talking about a class of people and not certain individuals. Using the whole of Scripture we can certainly see where we must align or choose to keep covenant with Him Proverbs 3:5-6; John 13:34-35; Acts 1:8

Please forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but how would the text change if it was talking about a class of people rather than certain individuals? (I agree with the interpretation of a class here, by the way.)I'm not sure why brotherjames felt it was necessary to play the C card. Let's presume an Arminian soteriology, and that the class of people in Rom 8:29-30are the elect whom God foreknew would choose him. Looking down the corridors of time and seeing their choice, God predestined them, called them, justified them, and glorified them.How is it possible that this can be genuinely received, but then lost? In texts concerning apostasy, like 1 John 2:19, it seems clear that those who depart the faith were never actually truly of it to begin with. Does the Lord not know those who are his?

This is a five-fold strand of activity on God's part. God foreknows, God predestines, God calls, God justifies, God glorifies. The entirety of Romans 8is a powerful expression of the security of the believer. Let's set aside all of the implications of Reformed theology in the first 3 strands

There are people that God does indeed predestinate. They WILL be saved. They WILL have eternal life.But there are others that, like the City of Jerusalem, COULD have been saved...but refused. Or COULD have been saved...and WERE!There are verses in BOTH directions. It is impossible to reconcile them without accepting that BOTH can be true. Why else would Jesus be sorrowful about the rich, young ruler unless another choice could have been made. If not, then Jesus was apparently sad that heaven had predestined the guy for hell. Further, if you do NOT believe in free will, you, of necessity, must except that everyone not predestined to eternal life is predestined to hell. The act of petty, petulant, adolescent God who COULD save everyone...but won't.I consider that one of the most damnable doctrines ever, and a deep flaw in full Calvinism (even though I know it comes from the best of intentions).

I don't want to derail this thread into a discussion about election and reprobation, but you should know that this is the point where your argument runs off the track. Romans 3:10

Getting back to the main point:If this is referring to a group (I agree) whom God justified, then how is it that it the entire group is not also glorified? Where is the note that some of the group that has been justified will become unjustified, and will not be glorified?

Read Hebrews.Get a life Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church

For years and years I have debated this question with sincere Christians. I was raised in a Southern Baptist congregation which held tightly to this errant doctrine.Indeed this has become my response.Cut to the chase.Read Hebrews, get a life Charles A. HutchinsSenior Pastor SPWCCongregational Church of Godwww.spwc.church