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Rigid/legalistic doctrine concerning divorce and remarriage

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Post subject: Dave Dorsey: Rigid/legalistic doctrine concerning divorce and remarriage
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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We sometimes see extremely rigid/legalistic views toward divorce and remarriage on this forum. For example, absolutely no grace or space for a woman who is abused, but whose husband does not want to abandon her. The text says what it says, and we must interpret and apply it rigidly and legalistically.If I were to leave my wife and pursue marriage with someone who was leaving her husband for me, we would all surely agree that both me and my mistress would be committing a heinous sin. We would be committing adultery.However, if I were to first murder both my wife and my mistress' husband, the rigid divorce/remarriage folks would have no biblical objection to my resulting marriage. It would, in their eyes, absolutely not be any form of adultery. I would need to repent of having committed two murders, sure, but my new marriage would not be adulterous.I do not object to a very conservative view of divorce. I could never in good conscience counsel a Christian couple to divorce and remarry. But if we are going to place an abused woman in bondage so long as her husband doesn't have an affair, we also must acknowledge that the same rigid textual approach gives her freedom if she will just murder her husband first.Does that strike anyone else as maybe just a little bit off?


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Post subject: Quiet Wyatt:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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Re: Rigid/legalistic doctrine concerning divorce and remarriage


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Post subject: Link:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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But some 'rigid divorce folks' would object that you should be stoned for your hypothetical crimes, assuming there were witnesses.


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Post subject: Link: We can also separate 'divorce and remarriage' into 'divorce' and 'remarriage'. We could throw separation in there, too. Normally, a king's subject, one of his generals, should be faithful to his king. If the king is anointed by God (as a 'prince'
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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There is also the fact that 'abuse' is actually a term used rather widely. The US has a number of domestic violence centers. They are almost all exclusively for women, though there are actually a fairly large percentage of households that experience domestic violence where the woman is violent. She's usually smaller, but if she's constantly hitting you, violently waking you up, or if she's got a knife...and you go to jail if you hold her back or restrain her, that's a dangerous situation. DV centers are typically run by feminists based on feminist philosophy. Many of them rely on the Duluth Model, which extrapolates the attitudes and actions of one morally and mentally messed up man to all abusive men. There is also the 'divorced wheel' model which includes quoting scriptures on submission as abusive behavior. The man controlling the family purse strings may be considered abusive behavior. I've seen some DV literature. Women may be taught that a number of typical male behaviors are part of a pattern of abuse. Conservative Christian doctrines and traditional husband behaviors (e.g. the man being in charge of finances) are presented as abusive. The idea that a couple fight or argue and then make up is presented as part of an abusive cycle.If a woman reads up on 'abuse' and then hears her pastor say she can divorce and remarry because of 'abuse', how does she respond? The pastor is talking about broken ribs and black eyes. Maybe she's thinking of her husband controlling the checkbook, quoting scripture about wives' submission, and telling her she looks fat in that dress. (Extreme example here.) Throw in some of the stuff that is promoted as 'rape' when feminist fornicators take over the dialogue... like if a man talks her into it when she wouldn't have wanted to otherwise, or if she felt pressured. I'm not sure if this is still the case, but some of the DV literature has promoted the idea of 'once and abuser, always an abuser.'-- maybe not those words, but that was the general idea. I know abusing one's wife is a horrible thing, and there are a lot of good things about living in a culture where there is a strong stigma against hitting women. But is it the heart of God for abusers to repent and marriages to be restored, or for marriages and families to be broken up? Are men who have gotten drunk and hit their wives and children beyond redemption? It may make us angry to think about it, but does God want to save and restore even the ones who are guilty of what we would all agree is actual 'abuse'?Looking at some of the material and later at some of the models and tools used online, it is fairly easy to label a lot of men as abusive. There is also a radical feminist idea that all men are 'potential abusers'There are also a number of genuinely rotten behaviors that get labeled as 'verbal abuse'-- demeaning and degrading someone. But more innocuous speech can be labeled as abusive also. There are different levels of 'abuse.' Saying from a pulpit that a wife can divorce over 'abuse' may be giving your audience permission to divorce over a myriad of offenses of varying degrees of severity.Take a look at this 'Power and Control' Wheel. If you sit around and think of it, you could think of a list of behaviors that a husband does that you would not label as abusive, but ticks a spoke of every one of these wheels. The man may not be the nicest husband, but probably nothing that comes to mind when most conservative Protestants think of 'abusive'. There are courts sending men accused of domestic violence to feminist programs, where they learn that the source of domestic violence is their being uncomfortable with female power and all kinds of feminist ideology. I don't remember the exact figures, but some estimates I have heard of is that 30 or 40 percentish of marriages or couples with physical abuse are cases where the wife is physically abusive. Those are the one's reported. This may be underreported by men who don't want to speak ill of their wives or admit to being being up by a girl. She hits. He can't hit back. There is a stigma against him hitting her, but not vice versa. If he defends himself or bruises her restraining her, and she calls the police, there is a very high chance he gets carted off in handcuffs and charged. There are places where police are required to take someone away from a DV call where there has been violence. There have been cases where they arrested too many women for feminist groups tastes, they complained, and the police started arresting more men again. The man is arrested, has a black mark on his record, and is labeled as an abuser. Oh, yeah, and the wife might be able to get permission from her pastor to divorce and remarry based on this


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Post subject: Dave Dorsey:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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Re: Rigid/legalistic doctrine concerning divorce and remarriage


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Post subject: Cojak:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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Amen Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/


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Post subject: Cojak:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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DD.... We don't like the hard questions. Honestly there are so many variables today as compared to Biblical times.Sad to say, I never expected Divorce in our family. Mom and dad were married over 50 years my Valentine and I are working on 64 years. BUT the 'D' word raised its ugly head in the lives of my family.Personally I guess folks will say I am justifying Divorce, but honestly my son married a girl in DC because her Mormon parents had custody of her son and would not release him to her unless she was married, so my son liked her and married her to get the son they did. Would that be a REAL marriage?My second son was moving in with his girl friend, my wife cried a little and begged him not to do it until they were married so he married her.There are even stranger reason folks are 'legally married'personally I have no idea how GOD looks at our society and its marriages today, but for sure things are DIFFERENT than in Biblical times. I told my son, let me pick the next one... He smiled and said,Just because you got the right one doesn't mean you can pick the right one for me. He was correct of course, but I miss the times parents picked for their kids. LO Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/


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Post subject: Cojak:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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Are some 'Marriages' just legal fornication? Just asking..... Some facts but mostly just my [email protected]/


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Post subject: Dave Dorsey:
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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This is another very good question. How do we define what God has joined together?If both spouses are confessing believers I think we are right to take a very, very conservative/restrictive approach to the subject of divorce and remarriage. But as you point out, there are a LOT of variables. A rigid/legalistic approach makes things easy, which is probably why we are continually drawn to such things. It is much easier to write off the concept of abuse as feminist propaganda than it is to wrestle theologically and practically with the issue of women (and men) in our churches who are married to ungodly, abusive spouses and are continually suffering and hurting.


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Post subject: Quiet Wyatt: Serious question...
Posted: Tue Jan 14, 2025 2:07 am
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Link, have you ever looked upon a woman with lust whom you were not married to? If so, have you plucked your eye out yet? Jesus was very specific about plucking your eye out if it causes you to stumble.Matthew 5:28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


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